IEP005: Slowing Down and Listening Deeply with Maddy Moon

Welcome to The Intuitive Entrepreneur podcast. I'm your host, Brigit Esselmont, intuitive business strategist and mentor. As the founder of Biddy Tarot I turn my love for tarot into an abundant seven-figure business. The secret to my success? Making intuition and strategy my entrepreneurial superpower. And now I'm inviting you to do the same. In this weekly podcast I'll be sharing advice, tools and real-life examples from some of the best intuitive entrepreneurs, to show you how you can trust your intuition, align with your purpose, and create a positive impact through your work. Let's make it happen. 

Brigit:  Hello, and welcome back to The Intuitive Entrepreneur podcast. Today I am talking with Madelyn Moon. Now, Maddy is an author, teacher, podcast host, retreat leader and transformational life coach. She's a guiding force for masculine-minded women who want to stop overthinking their lives away and live with more trust, intuition and feminine flow. 

Driven by perfectionism for years, Maddy found herself always trying to do more, be more, and accomplish more, which is really a dangerous cycle that only led to more distance between her and her dreams, self love and intuition. But through mediation, embodiment and the art of slowing down, she healed her heart, embraced her unique feminine essence, and learned to love her tender body. Now she teaches others across the world to do the same through her podcast, which is called Mind Body Musings. Her website at maddymoon.com, and ongoing retreats. And her work and her story is being featured in the Huffington Post, Teen Vogue, Thought Catalog, Nylon Magazine, and so many more. 

Now, in today's conversation, which I know you're going to love, Maddy and I talk about how to tell the difference between intuition and fear, how Maddy learned to trust her intuition and her inner wisdom, even in the face of conflict and potential disappointment, how Maddy is serving her clients with compassion by really slowing down and listening deeply. Maddy also talks about what the divine masculine and the divine feminine look and feel like. And I think you'll notice these are slightly different points of view than you may have heard about the divine masculine and feminine. And she talks about how you can draw more of these energies into your business. And we also talk about how agreements and contracts create a sense of safety for your clients, and really fundamentally support an intuitively-led business. 

I know you're going to love today's conversation, so let's get straight into it. 

Brigit: Welcome, Maddy. I'm so excited to have you here on The Intuitive Entrepreneur podcast. How are you doing tonight? 

Maddy:  I am doing really good. I just had some earl grey tea and big bowl of Ayurvedic kitchari, and I'm just feeling really rounded and excited to be with you today. It's just really nice. 

Brigit:   Awesome. We're going to have a really juicy conversation. I can feel it already. So let's dive straight into it. What does it mean for you to be an intuitive entrepreneur? 

Maddy:  I love this question, and what comes up for me, for most, isn't the word intuitive, but more of the word embodiment, which I think is the same thing. I think that when you're being an intuitive speaker or healer or coach what you're really doing is moving from the space of the analytical, the logical in the mind, and you're going into the body. And for me what intuition has always been something that's felt like a little bit of a mystery, and I had such a journey learning where my intuition was guiding me whenever I went down the path of intuitive eating, after my body-building years, and my disordered eating and exercise addiction, all of that. So I really got into intuition then. 

But it wasn't until I learned about embodiment that I really understood what it was to be an intuitive teacher, and getting into the body through certain modalities. But anything that allows you to go from the space of head, head, head, think, think, think, question, ponder, obsess, which I still do every day, right? Because we teach what we want to master, right? We teach where we feel we struggle, a lot of us do, where we need the most guidance. And so for me it's really about getting into the body. It's about being in body, being inside of the body, being energy once more. And even a deeper layer than that is being a channel for something that's going through you, and not second-guessing everything. 

But instead, this is so funny, I had this past boyfriend who once told me all the time. He noticed that I would say something and then I would backtrack. I'd say something and be like, "I feel like Mexican food. Never mind. I don't feel like Mexican food. What do you feel like?" And after a while he started telling me, "Don't backpedal. On a bicycle you don't want to backpedal." And I think a lot of times with intuition, because we're ingrained with all this information and logic, day in, day out, our skill as intuitive teachers to learn how to not backpedal, not backpedal, to learn how to go with what we are feeling, what is being channeled through us, and trust that it is something that maybe we don't understand right now. Maybe it's an irrational thing we can't rationalize. Maybe it's a gut feeling or an intuitive hit. But trust it, and with time you learn which... You learn what types of hits are really coming from intuition and what are coming from fear. 

And I think our job as teachers is to distinguish between the two, so we can feel, "This is from my intuition. This is embodiment. This is where I'm living right now," or, "This is coming from a place of lack and a place of fear, and it's not intuition." And so that's my answer to that great question. 

Brigit:  So many good things that I want to dive deeper into. So tell me a little bit more about this distinction between intuition and fear, and how do you personally tell the difference of when is it your fear talking? When is it your intuition talking? 

Maddy:  The first thing that comes up for me is am I breathing. If it's intuition I most likely had this really big sigh of relief. If it's fear I most likely stopped breathing. And it sounds so basic, but it's so, so true. So think about any time... For most women, any time we've been in an uncomfortable situation, let's say intimately, someone is leaning in for a kiss, or more, and we're not ready for that, we don't know how to say no. Lot of times what I, and what a lot of women do, is we hold our breath. Kind of freeze our body too. It's almost like a way that we think we can modulate our pain. We can stop it. We can control it. 

But what we're doing is we're freezing. And a lot of times whenever we have some sort of leaf that we are navigating our life by, should I hire the coach, no, should I take the trip, no, should I go out with this guy, no, if it's coming from a place of fear a lot of the times we freeze. Either with our breath, we stop breathing, or actually in our life. I often notice that if I'm dealing with a decision that I'm really struggling to come to terms with, and I'm dealing with fear around, a lot of times other areas of my life that are totally not related get put on pause too. It's like a ripple effect. I start becoming really indecisive. I start saying no to everything. I start finding ways to complain about money more. 

And a lot of it is rooted in that one thing, that I'm operating out of lack with. And this could be said for money, a business relationship, moving. And it's a ripple effect. So if you notice that you are saying, "I don't know," to everything else in your life, or you're not breathing deeply and you're holding your breath a lot, or you're freezing with all these different situations, it's very likely that there's some big looming thing happening in your life that you're operating out of fear with. 

Now, intuition feels more like, it sounds so cheesy, but like a really big smile, because you're just like, "Oh yeah." Because it feels expansive. So a lot of times teachers say, "If it's fear it's a feeling of contraction, going inward, caving in." We do this with our bodies too. You just notice with video, we have video on, but you notice my shoulders come in. A lot of times when we're not feeling very confident our shoulders come in. If we're feeling like we're moving and grooving with our intuition, and we're making decisions based off of that, doesn't mean we know the answers, doesn't mean we know we're gonna be right, doesn't mean that we know what's happening in the future. But if we're trusting, and we're going into the future with our intuition, and we're saying, "Everything is going to somehow work out in my favor. No matter what I will be okay," which is always the truth, if you're listening to this podcast you've been okay because you're breathing. You're heart is beating. You're here. 

When we are living from that place oftentimes you can notice also with your body. Like I said earlier, you're breathing deeper. You're breathing. And a lot of times your shoulders will be pulled back. Or you maybe have to train yourself to pull your shoulders back first. But then intuitively your body starts to open more. Is your body opening to life? Is your body opening as you walk down the street? Do you feel that actually your heart is opening more in yoga? Are you doing the yoga in life? So it can feel like this massive hit of expansion or contraction, but then it can also be in the subtleties of life. Like being indecisive. Closing out your body. Closing up your body. Saying no to things, or vice versa. 

Brigit:  Brilliant. I love it. And what a simple test, even just around breath. Or if that theme of for reason is coming into your life. Not just in the thing that you're looking at, but in all different areas. Tell me about when you first realized that your intuition played an important role in your business. 

Maddy:   When I first realized? That's a challenging question. Because I don't know exactly when I first realized this. I started my business working with people who were struggling with distorted eating and body image. That was their main struggle. I no longer work in that realm. I work with all sorts of things. Women who want to be business owners themselves. Women who want to move across the country but are paralyzed with fear. "What will happen if I do that? Is that the wrong decision?" Women who want to either be in their relationship or leave their relationship. 

When I think about my intuition back then, I mean, back then obviously it started more with intuitive eating and helping women learn how to feel into, at any given moment, what their body was craving. If it was a yes to food or a no to food, but also allowing themselves even to bypass the period of using their intuition. That's actually a really important piece with anyone who is recovering from disordered eating, is to go more with instinct, which could be intuition, but they don't know that yet. Because for so long in a lot of people's lives they've been living by a set of rules and limitations. And so first is that animalistic instinct that kicks in. Especially when we're talking about food, people just, when they're out that period of counting every single calorie, getting on the scale, not eating, eating, binging, restricting, there's a period of animalistic instinct, where it's just go, go, go, go, go. Eat all the food, because we don't know when we'll get it again. 

And going straight to intuition is a really good challenge for people. It's a skillset they haven't learned yet. So going back to embodiment, our bodies have to learn what it's like to be safe, to know that food will always be there, to know that they don't have to calorie count or starve or binge or restrict. And that doesn't happen in the mind. If that happened in the mind we'd read one book and we'd be healed from all of that. It happens within the body. So when I think about the first way that that came into play in my business, it was helping women go into instinct first, and then into intuition. Go into the land of free-for-all. Go with the instinct that your body is telling you, "This is what I need right now. This is what I'm craving right now." Go do it. Allow your body to go through this very uncomfortable space of feeling a little bit out of control, because you've been fighting that control your whole life. You've thought you were in control by counting every calorie and spending an hour on the treadmill every day. But in fact you were a slave to control. 

So then going into that period of being more like an animal, and allowing your wildness to come back as a woman, and we're talking about food here but this can be in anything, any way that you've been obsessing over control, I think there is this period of just instinct that first needs to come in if your body is saying, "I need to make sure I get out all of this fear that I won't have enough," in order to get to the place where you realize you do have enough. Be in the money fears. Be in the relationship fears. Be in them, but the trick is don't just be in them. Be in them. Be aware of them. See them. And then take that bird's-eye view. 

Then you pull away from it. You can observe what's happening. And then that's where I think the intuition becomes even more embodied, where you no longer have to be thinking about how you can be intuitive. But you're feeling based off of the combination of using that beautiful brain you have, but also using that animalistic intuitive guidance, that wild woman within you that says, "Yes. This feels expansive. This feels good," versus, "No, this feels like back when I was being obsessively in control of everything and actually out of control." "That feels bad. That feels limiting. That feels rigid." "This feels exciting. This feels nourishing. This feels loving." 

Brigit:  I love it. Beautiful. And so coming to now with your business, how are you integrating intuition in your own business, and perhaps even in how you make decisions, or how you set strategy, or how you interact with your community, how is intuition flowing through your business right now? 

Maddy:   So I would say right now there's a lot of slowing down happening. Those have been the two primary words of my life the past year, is slow down. And within this, we're talking all about business, so I will be very honest in that in the past two years my business has skyrocketed by those two words. Slow down. Because back then I would get an email from someone that want me to work with them. And I would let them know my fees. I would let them know how it works. Straight up first email. Just boom, boom, boom. This is what it's like. And I felt so much friction with that. People weren't moving forward and working with me. I was getting resentment and frustrated that no one was coming to me to work with me. I was moving very fast through people, through emails, through DMs of my Instagram. Fast, fast, fast, fast, fast. 

What I do now in my business is I intensely slow down, and I'm intentional with every single word that is delivered to my inbox, and every word that is delivered to my Instagram. And we can go into how I preserve my energy with that, because that's more of a vulnerable thing of what I'm really trying to discover right now, because it is so important to me to slow down. So you have to set boundaries on how much do you slow down. How often do you slow down? How often do you expose yourself to your DMs and to your inbox? Do you set boundaries with that? So that you can slow down. Because now when I receive an email I will probably read that email three times through before I send any response. I will write up my first response. I will edit it. I will slow down with my response. And this might sound a little bit exhausting to some people. And this isn't for everyone. But for me this was really a way that I could read between the lines of what people were saying to me, because there's a deep, deep, deep reason anytime someone is reaching out to a coach. 

And for me, for my intuition, I need to use that to feel into what is the reason behind the reason behind the reason that they are reaching out to me. It's not because they want to look differently or they want their husband to do something differently, or they want to find their purpose. To be quite honest it's typically not that. It's even deeper than that. I know finding your purpose sounds very, very, very deep, but it's deeper than that. It's deeper than finding something, because oftentimes people find what they think it is that they were looking for and they are still not happy, and they are still reaching out to coaches. Because it's more than just finding a thing. It's feeling something. It's always about feeling something. But a lot of times people don't know that. 

And so for me as a coach, I have taken it upon myself to listen to what everyone is saying, of course. To listen to what the resistance is. To what their fears are, what their dreams are, but to slow down. Go even deeper. And also as one of my teachers, John Wineland, often says, "Push back a little bit." So if I hear something that doesn't feel like it's truly coming from their heart or their fears, because I want to honor their fears too and I want to bring that out too, if I don't feel like they're going into the depths of what they truly desire, to be heard, to let go, to be seen, to be held, to feel free, to feel limitless, whatever is coming up for them, if I don't feel like the words that are coming out of their mouth are actually in alignment with those desires that I feel, that is one of the, I would say, more challenging things I've had to learn about being a coach, is saying what I feel is underneath what they are saying. And also being okay with being wrong. 

Because a lot of times I think probably coaches aren't saying what they actually feel. Because their intuition is saying, "I feel something is coming up for this person, but what if that pisses them off?" Or, "What if they no longer like me?" That's a huge one, and I totally feel that. I feel that, and it has been something I've had to sit with over the past year as I've come face-to-face with some situations with clients and slow down with them, and be with their resistance. And also in any area of life we're not going to put ourselves in an area of being rejected if we're afraid to hear a no. It's always the case. Any time we're afraid of, "What will it mean? How will I feel? How uncomfortable will it be if I get a no?" We're not going to put ourselves in an opportunity to be rejected if the possibility of hearing no is unbearable for us. 

Using our intuition we have to learn hearing a no, or hearing from our client, "That doesn't resonate with me," it's not the end of the world, and it doesn't mean anything about you. And it doesn't mean that your intuition was wrong. It doesn't mean anything is wrong, because there is no right. There is only what is coming up right now. 

Brigit:  And I think that's such an important point around being okay with, well, what feels like rejection, but actually isn't, because if you believe that everything is exactly as it is meant to be then you know and you recognize that that no or that resistance is absolutely perfect. And it's perfect for both you and that other person. 

Maddy:  And it's also an opportunity for them. This is another thing, is as a coach, when you speak what you're feeling, or a teacher or anything speaks what they're feeling with their intuition, and the other person says, "No, that doesn't resonate," that's great for them. You're doing your job as a coach to put them in that situation where they have to say, "No, that doesn't resonate with me." Because that's teaching them. You're still teaching them. You're using your intuition to feel into what feels true to you. They say no. That's great. Because in that moment they just touched base with something in their intuition. 

So you are doing your job to pull out their inner guidance. As coaches that's what we're doing, right? It's not saying this is how you get from point A to point B. It's helping that person pull out what's already within them. And so if they say, "No, I don't like what you just said, Maddy," great. I'm helping pull out something within them. They just got a no. So now maybe the opposite is yes for them. Or something. Maybe not the opposite, but something in that space of the opposite is probably what's more true for them. And it's helping them realize what a no feels like and a yes feels like. So I think if you're a coach and you hear a no from your client, and they say, "That doesn't resonate," awesome. You just taught them one more step towards knowing what their no and what their yes is. 

Brigit:  I see that. Yeah, it's neat. And so I'm wondering on the flip side, perhaps in the earlier days of coaching, was there a time when you ignored your intuition, or perhaps maybe ego or fear came in and said, "I'm feeling this, but I don't want to say it. I'm worried about might happen"? Can you share an example? 

Maddy:   God yes. It's so interesting when I'm... I mean, I had an example that happened quite recently. I've two, three, four, five examples honestly. So we can't even just say the beginning of my coaching. It's still now, because I'm still learning. When you're given the opportunity to work with someone, I'm sure you relate to this, you want to help. You want to serve. And sometimes it feels like, "I can serve anyone. I can serve anyone wherever they are. If they're coming to me they're my people." And there has been times where I have felt in my body this person is not a right fit. (singing). If my body is singing that, and yeah, my mind is like, "Money? Service? Get to coach them?" Like, "Abundance? All these things are coming to me?" 

It's really challenging to maneuver between what is abundance, and saying yes to things and opportunity and the world trying to give you more clients and more money and all these things. And actually what is a test? What is a test? What is a test? There might be money coming your way, but it might not be a good energy exchange. What you have to give in order to receive that money, and receive the opportunity to work with that person, it might not be a good fit for you. And so I've had instances where I've had my intuition say, "This person is probably not a spot-on fit for this gathering. 

Let's say I'm hosting a retreat. Something feels a little bit off around this. Something does not feel like this person's energy is going to actually encourage the other people's energy. And the beautiful thing is in that situation the universe actually took care of it for me. It didn't feel like that. Did not feel like it was taken care of it for me in this beautiful way. I was actually quite pissed off. But this person backed out of the retreat, and then I had my own resistance to that. I had my own resistance of, "You can't back out. You have to come to the retreat. That's one less person. If I have one less person than I have to fill one more spot." And my brain was just going crazy staying in the thoughts. But then when I really got into the body I could recall, from the moment of that first conversation it felt like the wrong fit. 

And I said yes to this person because I have a good heart and I wanna see this person come, and I believe great things are possible, and sometimes great things happen when you didn't expect it. But then the universe was like, "No, girl. You know it's not a good fit for you." And so this person backed out, and of course my ego was like, "You can't do that." But then I had to go into this state of being a good coach and slowing down with them, even still when I was being triggered, AF, I still had to come from this professional place of, "I hear you, and I wanna listen to what your resistance is, and talk me through this." And I still had to come and listen to them, even though my body and my ego and everything wanted to say, "Throw a tantrum. Just throw a tantrum." 

And it ended up that this person did not come, and we came to like a solid ground where both parties walked away feeling good. I mean, energetically there was like some friction there, but the arrangement that was made felt good. But if I can go all the way back to square one of that moment, my body said no. Like no. And if I had to listen to that then none of that would've happened. And yet, because I'm all about seeing all the different sides, it's great that happened. Because it's only more confirmation of, "Yep, my intuition knows what she's talking about. She's really spot-on." And, "Yep, the universe has my back. Yep, the universe protected me there." 

So if I listen to my intuition, great. I could save a lot of contracts and a lot of hassle and a lot of frustration, and protect the sacred gatherings I'm making by staying so, so, so true to that intuitive hit I receive. And also if I'm human and I mess up, or not even mess up, but if I'm human and I believe that, "This person will be a good fit. I'm going to hold onto this," I can also trust that whatever happens does happen. The universe took care of it for me. And even though it was a frustrating experience that was confusing, and it was a little harsh on me, and it actually made me very sad, because underneath any frustration and anger is always grief, it was also a good experience. It taught me so much about listening and slowing down even more. Slowing down even more. Giving myself time to feel into each and every individual person that I work with that comes to my retreats, that gets a course. Like whatever it may be. Feeling deeper and deeper into that and trusting. 

Brigit:  I think it's such a good example too. Even though you might not have caught it on the first round you got it on the second. And it shows the difference between what is an intuitive entrepreneur versus not intuitive entrepreneur. Because you could've gotten to that point. Your ego could've just locked in when she said, "No, I'm not showing up." You could've locked in and gone, "No. These are the rules. No refunds," without knowing the circumstance. You could've gone down legal action. Your ego could've taken over and pushed and forced and strived to make it happen, when it wasn't meant to happen. But instead you trusted. You listened. And the slowing down and feeling into it, you always, I think, always arrive at a much better response or solution, that not only just serves you, but serves the other person, serves the community. You were doing a service to the people that were at the retreat by listening to yourself in that situation. 

Maddy:   And can I add something else here? So a lot of times it's really important for us to look at our family, right? Obviously our family, how did our family act in periods of resistance? And a theme I've noticed in my own life is my dad always made things so much more difficult than they needed to be. If he needed to return a book to Barnes & Noble he just got angry and frustrated, and it was a whole ordeal. And I grew up watching this, and I always thought that anytime you're dealing with, I don't even want to use the word confrontation, because it's more simple than that. It's like a conversation with strangers. Anytime you're dealing with a conversation with strangers, or something goes differently than it's supposed to, a delivery is getting delivered a day later, an appointment is 15 minutes later, you buy the wrong Advil on accident, anytime anything like this happens there's always someone to blame. 

And I don't look at my dad in that way and say, "Shame on you." I understand that's from his dad. And I love my dad exactly the way he his, and he's taught me my lessons by giving that to me. But I've noticed that I have this pattern of having a gut response like my father. And that's why slowing down has been this mind-blowing concept for me in all of life. In the way I cook. The way I talk. The way I have sex. The way that I coach. Having silences and pauses. This slowing down has helped me with my family lineage. With the way reactiveness came into play with my grandfather, and reactiveness came into the play with my dad, and then me as a little girl, in these situations I look at, even in the situation of someone backing out of the retreat, when I look at other people who were maybe not raised with that particular occurrence happening in their family, if a situation like that come up maybe they'd be frustrated, but their heart would probably be at a steady pace. They'd probably still be breathing. They might curate an email that's all about both sides, and maybe more compassionate. Maybe not. 

But when I look at my past and the way I was raised everything was always around being offended, being upset. Being offended was the number one emotion that came up for my father. And so that was a something that I've noticed whenever I worked with anyone on customer service. It was immediately to act like he acted. All up in arms and offended. And then I noticed other little things in the subtleties of life, and how he would be offended by if someone got in front of him in their car, even if they didn't cut him off. Just getting in front of him. How did I do that? And so this helps me a lot to look at my reaction to things going differently than what I thought, and also being compassionate towards myself for the way I handle them. Because actually I've done a really amazing job at changing that family lineage, and I can't wait to one day if I have kids to teach them how to come at these angles with the least resistance, and the most compassion. 

And I have got a long way to go, because everyone gets frustrated when you have this perfect plan and idea of how something is supposed to be. And that's where, and again, intuition comes into play here, of just I think intuition is always guiding us more towards love. And being offended and being reactive is not. So my conscious intuition is going to the path of least resistance. My unconscious response is to be offended and to react. And so separating the two, these conversations that are "hard," the refund or someone backing out, they have potential to not be. They have potential to be easier. If we go to the path of least resistance and not let any of these outward situations take away our internal peace. 

And that's my lifelong dream, because for watching that from 19 years of my life that's something I've really had to learn on my own living by myself. How do I do this? How do I slow down? How do I not get offended? How do I not react? Meditate. Slow down. Breathe. And know that I am the only one that is in control of my peace, and also everything is also working in my favor all the time. 

Brigit: It's beautiful. And I think that it flows through one's business in so many different ways to switch from that place of reactiveness and getting offended. And offended often leads to defensive behavior, right? And it's all this conflict, and it doesn't feel good, but the allowing side of things, the listening, the being compassionate. And it doesn't mean that you have to be soft or weak. Do you know what I mean? That it doesn't equate to weakness or- 

Maddy:  It doesn't mean you get trampled over. 

Brigit:    That's it. Absolutely. And I think it's still important that we can have energetic boundaries, but perhaps it's within the context of how do we create a win-win situation. How do we create something where we both feel served? 

Maddy:   I'm also going to add one thing here. And this is a very practical thing I have learned, is I have been coached by a lot of people who never had contracts, never felt the need for it. I had some sort of keep going from one thing to another. I hope that's okay. I'm like these tangents keep building. But now that I'm just thinking, something that actually puts people at a peace of mind, and you do have to summon in a bit of your masculine, because like you just said, doesn't mean you're being trampled over or you're weak. And also it's really, really... I think for a coach to truly thrive you must have your protection and your boundaries. 

So this an example, really, that goes with the retreater, but it kind of does. If I had a clearer understanding, a clearer boundary of what is to be expected, what I expect, what they can expect, an arrangement in writing, it actually does help a lot. And you can create contracts from a place of love. It's an agreement. I don't call them contracts actually, so I don't know why I'm using that word. I call them agreements, and it's agreement between me and how I'm going to show up for you, and an agreement between you and how you are going to show up for you, and for me as well. And so I just wanted to put that in there, because I don't really hear a lot of people on podcasts and business entrepreneurs talk about the safety net that contracts actually can bring, and how you don't need to spend money on a lawyer even to do it. You can create a contract that's written in your language and your verbiage, and it doesn't have to be perfect. 

And it can be intuitive, and it can be loving. It can be nurturing. And it could also be like that inward paternal energy, or maternal energy. Both of them. Having both that feminine and masculine energy put into these agreements that make everyone feel really, really safe. This has been a year of me learning the importance of having agreements. Really from, I would say, 365 days ago, not just 2019, but I've had this beautiful year of learning how I want to show up as a coach, and how I want my clients to show up. And the universe, I think, has rewarded me for that. I think we sometimes as women have a fear of speaking so boldly. That if we have some sort of agreement like this, or have some sort of contract like this, whoever might want to work with us is going to run away. 

But actually that makes people feel safer. That makes clients feel safer. When we step up and we have contracts and agreements, and we are assertive and warm, if we choose to be, that is how we are changing, I think, this paradigm of us using our voices, clearing our throat chakras, speaking up for what we need. And also just setting standards in our business of, "This is how I'm going to run my business." And our clients thrive from that. Clients thrive because they can truly be in that energy, that ooey gooey, like they're giving off emotion and going into their feelings, because they know they're safe and they're held. And even something like an agreement can make your client feel more vulnerable. And you. You can feel more vulnerable as well. 

Brigit: I think it's really important, because oftentimes things like systems, processes, agreements, all of that side of things on the front of it can feel limiting, right? We go, "We don't want to have all of these things. I'll just be in flow and I'll be fine." But I'm a strong advocate for the systems and the structure allow freedom and flexibility to happen. And I love that you touch on the agreements and how they create a feeling of safety, because that's a base need that we need to have in place. 

And as soon as you can lock in safety and security then you can quickly elevate up to those different levels, which are much more in that higher connection. Vulnerability. Trust. Being in flow. And so on. But you need that. That base chakra needs to be covered, right? And you need to feel comfortable. So I'm really glad you brought that up, because I'm an advocate for it as well, and I think it really does have a place in intuitively-led businesses. It's not just all about flow. And in fact, this kind of leads me to my next question, which is about this balance between the masculine and the feminine, particularly for female entrepreneurs. And I know this is something that you talk about a lot in your work, and it's also in your one-to-one coaching. So let us sort of deep dive into your world, Maddy, of this balance of masculine and feminine as it relates to business. 

Maddy: Beautiful question. So to be very clear, the masculine and the feminine lies within each and every individual. You can think of this as the yin and the yang. You can think about this as alpha and omega, the sun and the moon. Opposites but equal. And in its core the masculine is consciousness. It's the part of you and the part of me that has never changed. It is always there. It's that divine bright light. It's not attitude and energy and excitement and highs and lows. It's none of that. It's pure consciousness, untouchable. And so when we look at this more in practical terms it's practical. This still sounds kind of out there, but the masculine is the master of time and space, as one of my teachers, John Wineland, says. 

So it's like where are we going to be? When are we going to be there? How are we going to be there? How will we arrive? It's those kind of questions, the structure. Masculine is all about presence being here, being now. Now being there. Not being there. Being right here. It is like if we were to take this analogy of river, it's the bed. It's the bed that the river is going through. It's not changing. It's absolutely sturdy. And it's a foundation. It's not moving and grooving. It's just right there. So you can think of this also, now more maybe like practical words that, words everyone can really relate with. Our masculine is our depth. It's our ability to drop into meditation, to breathe deeper. So if the masculine is a container, right? It's time and space. When you think about breathing you're filling up your belly. So you're actually when you're breathing really deep you're going into your masculine. You're going into stillness. You're going into the depths of your consciousness where there's nothing. If anyone has ever been to that sweet spot of meditation it's like you're totally free. There's an ending. There's no more. It's just great. 

And then the feminine is absolutely the opposite. It is energy. His and lows and ups and down, and emotion going through your body. If we look at the river it's the water. It's moving and grooving. It's fluid. It's always changing. It's chaotic. It's happy. It's sad. It's happy. It's sad. Like how we are on a regular basis when we're really in touch with our emotion, or not even in touch, but just we have emotion. We can feel all of that in one single day, because the feminine is energy. It is the moon. It is emotions. And so if we were to look at this, let's say in our business, our feminine, it's very, very closely tied with our inner child as well. So it's like creativity. Because a child is not consumed with, "What are people thinking about me?" "There's the color yellow. I love yellow. Oh, a butterfly. I'm happy. I'm sad." It's all over the place and it's just free and it's wild and it's energetic. Very closely related to the feminine. 

The feminine is all about birthing. Doesn't have to be a baby. It could be a book. It doesn't have to be a book. It can be breakfast. It's all about creating and just making, like a child too. In our business, when we're looking at these two dynamics, if we got really down to the nitty gritty of looking at what this would be like, our masculine would be our boundaries, the boundaries we set, our contracts, our schedule of the day, when and where, how long, what format, Skype or Zoom. If we look at this between, let's say, in my world and my business, whenever I'm coaching someone I am in the masculine. I'm using my feminine intuition. I'm in my body. I'm feeling what they're saying to me and how it's affecting my body. I'm using that, yes. But I'm also very much in my masculine where they feel safe that they can let go. I'm breathing deep. I'm holding presence. I'm grounded. I'm rooted. And when I'm done with that I can shake it all out. I can dance. I can let go of all of their energy that my body was then holding and go absolutely into my feminine, where I'm actually emoting. 

And I'm feeling. I'm feeling all of the things. I don't want to use the word compartmentalize, but whenever I am in a coaching session I'm not going to be crying along with them. I'm going to be holding them whenever they're crying, even it's on Skype. I'm still with them, and I'm seeing them, and I'm witnessing them. I'm the witness to what they're going through and experiencing. Then when we are done I go into my feminine, where I might need to cry. I might need to let things out. I might need to take a bubble bath and be in water, like the river. Or I might need more stillness. I might need to go and meditate and be into silence, and have my belly be a big container for breath. Now, we have these energies with us at all times, and every day is a constant harmony. 

Today for me, it was a perfect balance between my masculine and my feminine. I meditated twice. I got some structure. I got back to some emails. I sat very still and read a book, which I would actually consider that to be quite masculine. And then I cooked a delicious meal, where I smelled all the herbs, and I got my fingers yellow with turmeric. And I observed my fingers, and I got pleasure from the colors that were on me, and the smells. And I really indulged in my senses. That's my feminine. And then I wrote a poem this morning first thing after my mediation. I looked at the sunrise, and I smelled the beautiful streets of New York City. And I think, so the feminine is all about noticing the subtleties of life and seeing how there's so much pleasure and beauty in all of these things on a day-to-day basis, and it carries over from business. And when you're looking in the client in front of you and seeing their beauty, and holding presence with them as you see them, but then you close your laptop and you go outside, and you notice that adorable squirrel that you would've just quickly walked right past. 

So we're talking about slowing down. I think the feminine is a beautiful harmony between both... I'm sorry. I think slowing down is a beautiful harmony between both the masculine and the feminine, because when we're in our masculine we're slow. We're going into more stillness. But when we're in our feminine we're noticing more. We're more in touch with our pleasure and the joys of life. You can't notice all the joys of life you're going so fast, if you're reading the emails so fast. You can't be in your feminine and use your intuition if you're skimming past everything. When you're hold presence and you're also reading between the lines, and noticing the subtleties and seeing the beautiful in every little word someone sends your way, you're in harmony with both of those beautiful delicious energies. 

Brigit:   I love it. And for me this is a really unique way of explaining the masculine and the feminine. I've heard a number of different models, but what you've shared today is something very new and enlightening. So thank you. I also find that, well, originally I would do the kind of... the feminine stuff I'd be looking, and maybe meditating and chilling out in nature, and then the other part of my brain would just jump in and go, "What am I doing. This is not very productive. Go back to work. Go on. Do something. I'm not getting any epiphanies. Carry on." And what I realized actually over times was the very fact of being observant, even looking at that little squirrel, or the trees, or enjoying the flavors and smells of cooking, doing that in that moment wasn't necessarily achieving a result in that moment. But I know that when I go to work that my mind has been reconfigured in a way that allows my to be calmer, allows me to do what you were talking about earlier around slowing down and being present and in the moment. 

And in fact I've returned from a week in Sri Lanka, and a yoga retreat, and even my kids noticed. Like, "Mummy, you've been reset." I'm like, "I have actually. I feel so much calmer." So I wanted to just really point that out, because I know I've gone through that frustration, and surely many other have too, where you think, "I'm just wasting my time." It's all very nice to go out there and look at all the daisies, but what is it actually doing? But what I've noticed is it has that impact in the long run, in the long term, and it allows us to really calm down when it comes to things like our business. 

Maddy:  Exactly. And I talk a lot about the toxic versions of the feminine and the masculine as well, and- 

Brigit:    Tell me more about that. 

Maddy:   Well, a lot of people think that whenever they're living from a place of perfectionism they're living from their masculine, and that's so not the truth. The masculine isn't obsessed with perfection. The masculine does, but it doesn't constantly obsess over doing. It just knows. Like the Course in Miracles says, "Those who are certain of the outcome can afford to wait, and wait without anxiety." And I think that's exactly what a masculine warrior energy does. It says, "I am certain that I will conquer my mission of what I'm supposed to conquer in this life, and I can wait without anxiety. I can cruise. I can notice the beauty in life. I can breathe deeper. I can be here and now." 

And I think actually perfectionism is the toxic feminine, is a, "If I don't do enough then I'm not gonna be worthy. If I'm not beautiful enough then I'm not gonna be wanted." These are all thing that were implanted in our brains, so it's not our fault at all. But I think, "If I do this, then I get this. If I don't do this, then I get this." Those kind of fair-based thoughts really come more from the feminine of needing to feel like she has to prove, because women were taught they needed to prove, always. 

Men too. So I'm not a big fan of using genders anyways. This is just going naturally happen because I talk about men and women all the time. That's the verbiage I will most likely be using. But also know this is everyone. My mind is just thinking a lot about women because that's who a work with. But this is men too, of course. Men are taught all the time that they must prove that they are man, that they don't feel all these emotions, that they must be bigger. They can take care of their family. All of these things. But I don't notice perfectionism so much in men. 

Perfectionism is more like an anxiety disorder that lives within women, and it's a very distracting coping mechanism for not feeling like we're measuring up to all the ways society says we need to be measuring up. I think men are more doing, doing, doing, doing, doing. Not really obsessing and fearing that they're doing enough, but they're just doing, doing, doing, which is a lot of the toxic masculine. So I think the toxic feminine is forms of manipulation, not using the voice but rather turning the cold shoulder to get what you want, because underneath that is fear always, fearing that if you use your voice you're gonna be left. You're not gonna be wanted. 

Toxic feminine energy, this is not women, this is just toxic feminine, so this can live within a man. Toxic feminine can be codependency. "I can't do this on my own. I must lean on you." Toxic feminine could be trampled over, could be an energy where you get trampled over because you have no boundaries. So it's a lack of self worth. "I don't value myself enough to set boundaries. I need to give, give, give, give, give." 

Toxic masculine, on the other hand, is obsessed with power. It is very much so ego-driven. So the masculine is very self-focused, which is great, because the feminine is community-focused. We need both those. But with the toxic masculine it's more of dominating. "I will dominate over others to be in first place." So it's not just self-focused. It's self at all costs, because power is everything, and that's typically what I see a lot. But then there's also the toxic masculine of using size, using strength, using money to get what you want, fearing that you're actually a small guy in a big truck. Like you don't wanna be seen. 

My dad always used to call people who use their trucks to show that they were big Lord Farquaads, from Shrek. And I think that's a great example of what the toxic masculine can be like. It's like Lord Farquaad, of like, "I am big and I am massive and I am huge." But deep down you're actually scared because you don't feel like you're that big at all. And there's nothing wrong with being a small guy in a big truck. There's nothing wrong with that at all. But I think that the metaphor serves that purpose for what the toxic masculine is. It's very dominating. It doesn't have dominion. 

So, if you notice, even as a woman, anybody, that there are areas in your life where you're trying to exude power or use your stature, or your voice raises to get what you want. Notice, are you trying to compensate. Are you trying to prove that you are bigger because you're actually insecure and you're actually scared? Because that insecurity and that fear, that's the sweet spot. That's the vulnerability. And actually stepping into that is what's going to help you step deeper into your true masculine and your true feminine. 

So if you're actually tactics of manipulation, where that's the toxic feminine, because you're afraid to speak your truth and speak your voice and hear a no, or by unlovable because what you want is outrageous, that's the sweet spot. What is it that you want? How do you feel? Show us your tears. Show us what it actually feels like to be sad, to rage. Tell us. We want to see that, because that's actually quite beautiful, and that's the work that my teachers, John and Kendra Cunov do, is helping women and men actually reveal what it is that they want and show each other. Because it's actually quite beautiful to see and to witness what your true feelings are, because so many of us are walking around trying to turn that off and hide that. 

Brigit:   Beautiful. I love it. And I'm feeling into that it's important to become consciously aware of where you may be slipping into that toxic place, and then balancing that out. And also that this isn't about being wholly masculine or wholly feminine. It's about balance, regardless of gender. And that there's that beautiful, well, you called it the masculine warrior, and is there a feminine warrior? Warrior-ess? 

Maddy:   So I've used goddess before, but I actually don't really resonate with that word so much, because I think we all have an idea of what a goddess, and I don't think that's what it is. So I'm still feeling into. Women Who Run with Wolves, have you read that? 

Brigit:    No. I actually want to hear it on audiobook- 

Maddy:   That's how I did it. 

Brigit:    ... because I've heard a little snippet and it was amazing. 

Maddy:   I want to go back into that and find some of the words she uses, because whatever words she used I would trust more. I don't know. I love oracle. I'm sure you absolutely love that as well. But oracle, trusting your own oracle, sorceress. I don't know. The word isn't quite coming up for me. It's not goddess, but it's something, there's something out there. 

Brigit:      We will find it. Priestess? No, it's a little bit... Anyway. 

Maddy:  Because I want something kind of dirty too. And I don't mean dirty sexy. I mean dirty ground, nature, trees, actual mud. That's why I love The Women Who Run with Wolves. It's all about going back to your roots, and being in nature, and being in dirt, and being messy, because being a woman is about being messy. So I want a word that also has something a little bit to do with... Not witch, but something that has to do with being in the woods, and being rural, and going back to your roots. 

Brigit:     Yum. So Maddy, what's emerging for you over these next 12 months in your business? 

Maddy:     What's emerging for me? Some sort of shift. Some sort of shift. I think I'm going to be working less with people one-on-one, and putting more on my focus and attention into my group retreats, and potentially creating courses, because I talk about these things all the time, but I don't have any courses that lead people through the feminine and the masculine. And I do all sorts of things over human design and business, feminine and masculine, self confidence, all these different things. So I'm really feeling into taking it and compacting it in a way that it's more accessible for lots of people to be able to do, and less time and energy on my part, I guess. 

Brigit:    I would love to see you do a couple online courses. I think that would be really good. 

Maddy:   Thank you. 

Brigit:    And what new aspect of yourself are you expressing this year? 

Maddy:    I don't have the exact way to put it, but I've noticed over the past year I am being much more really honest with my thoughts, my feelings, what I want. And for examples, let's say if I was hungry... This is just a random example. If I was at a guy's house that I kind of liked, and I was kind of hungry, and it was 10:00 PM, and I didn't want to say anything, because we just had dinner at like... Now if I'm hungry I'm going to say, "Do you have any more snack? Are you hungry?" But even two years ago I would just wait. I wouldn't say anything, because that's not ladylike to ask for more food. All these ladylike thoughts. I was raised in the south and I had all this stuff put into me at a very young age. 

And now I just ask. Ask. Or if I'm tired I'm gonna say, "I want to go home." If I'm not feeling good about a situation I'm going to say no to it. I've noticed this happening recently without me even putting any effort into it, and I think moving to New York is probably helping that. Others are doing it, so I'm kind of doing it. And it feels so good. It feels so good just to be able to say, "I'm tired. I'm not going out," or, "I want to go home," after I'm hanging with someone for a while. I just say it. I don't wait until they say it. Or, "Get off the phone," when I'm talking to a friend, when I'm ready and I'm done. I would always wait for someone else to say, "Okay, well, I got to go now." Always. Now, when I'm done with talking on the phone I'm going to say, "Well, I got to go. Talk to you later. Bye." It is so great. And it sounds so simple and so small, but it's a big deal to me and it feels really good. So I guess just more truth. 

Brigit:  I love it. And it sounds like to me is this deep honoring of your needs and your desires. And it may sound simple on the top, on the surface, but I think there is something very deep there that's happening, a really deep shift when you get to express exactly what it is that you want, or what you don't want. 

Maddy:  Thank you. It feels good. 

Brigit:     So Maddy, where can people find out more about you. 

Maddy:    You can find me at maddymoon.com, which is M-A-D-D-Y moon dot com. And you can find me on Instagram, madelynmoon, M-A-D-E-L-Y-N. I am all over Instagram. I do teachings and all this sort of stuff on the stories all day long. I love Instagram stories. And I have a podcast called Mind Body Musings. It has been around for five years now. So it has got a lot of episodes waiting for you, if anyone is new to it. Lots of different beautiful people on the show. So you can find that on iTunes, Spotify or Stitcher. And that's about it. 

Brigit:    Awesome, awesome. Maddy, thank you so much for today's discussion. I have loved it. I've got so many things out of it for my personally. So I'm sure our listeners have as well. So thank you for really diving deep and exploring kind of the depths of our minds, and what's going on. So thank you so much for being here. 

Maddy:   Thank you for having me. I am so excited for this podcast, and everything you do is just so incredibly helpful. Everyone that I know that does tarot is obsessed with your book and everything you do, and I'm just so happy to be here, and an honor. So thank you for having me on today. 

Brigit:  That's very sweet. All right. Thank you and bye for now. 

Thank you for joining me for today's episode of The Intuitive Entrepreneur podcast. If you love this episode please leave an honest rating and review on iTunes. It really helps to get the word out, and of course, I read every single comment. Now, if you're an intuitive entrepreneur with a desire to build a business fueled by purpose, passion and profit, then you're invited to join me in an intimate group of female business owners in the intuitive entrepreneur's mastermind. All you need to do is add your name to the wait list, and you'll be the first to know when applications are open. So head on over to brigit.me/mastermind. That's B-R-I-G-I-T dot me forward slash mastermind. I'll see you there, and bye for now.