IEP009: How to Pivot Your Business and Follow Your Passion with Kathryn Hocking

Welcome to the Intuitive Entrepreneur Podcast. I'm your host, Brigit Esselmont, intuitive business strategist and mentor. As the founder of Biddy Tarot, I turn my love for tarot into an abundant seven figure business. The secret to my success: making intuition and strategy my entrepreneurial superpower, and now I'm inviting you to do the same. In this weekly podcast, I'll be sharing advice, tools and real life examples from some of the best intuitive entrepreneurs to show you how you can trust your intuition, align with your purpose and create a positive impact through your work. Let's make it happen.

Brigit: Hello and welcome to the Intuitive Entrepreneur Podcast. Today I'm chatting with Kathryn Hocking, who is an expert launch strategist and the creator of several wildly successful online programs including the eCourse Launch Formula and Launch Mastery. She's generated over $1 million in online revenue through her leverage programs, and has developed a loyal and raving community of soul clients. She's also led more than a thousand ambitious entrepreneurs through the process of creating and launching their own online products and programs.

Now over the last few years, Kathryn has honed her healing skills and she's now a practicing soul and energy medicine practitioner and intuitive astrologer, which allows her to take a really holistic approach with her clients, and you'll hear more about that in today's conversation. Now Kathryn teaches her clients how to fuse strategy with soul, heart with hustle, yin with yang to ensure that everything they launch creates sublime abundance and leaves them feeling like a total launch goddess. After witnessing and supporting hundreds of women to launch, Kathryn has developed her own method to help female entrepreneurs to be brave, be visible and launch this whole work.

More recently, she's stepping into a new part of her business, which is all focused around astrology and business. In today's conversation, we talk about how Kathryn made the courageous decision to pivot her business from teaching how to create eCourses to launching with ease and grace, and now to using astrology to navigate business. We also talk about why self-care is the essential ingredient to a successful and sustainable launch, how to integrate feminine leadership into your business and how astrology has helped Kathryn and her clients create a deeper connection to their businesses and their communities. With that said, let's get into it.

Brigit:  Welcome Kathryn. It's such a pleasure to have you here. How are you going today?

Kathryn: I'm great. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Brigit:   You did tell me earlier you're in your UGG boots, so we're nice and comfy for today's conversation. You do what you got to do, right?

Kathryn:  Absolutely. This is what being an entrepreneur is all about, being able to sit around in your UGG boots and work.

Brigit:    I know. I've got my wooly socks on. We're all happy. Let's just get straight into this. Tell me what you believe is an intuitive entrepreneur. What does it mean for you?

Kathryn:  It's a really interesting concept because I actually remember many years ago when I started my business and I was in business groups, and people would introduce themselves as intuitive coaches or intuitive entrepreneurs, and I remember thinking that sounded so cool. It sounded like something I wasn't. It sounded like this was this special gift that they had that I didn't, but what I've come to learn over many years now is that we're all intuitive. We all have that ability. It's really just how much we choose to use it and tune into it, and listen to it.

For me, being an intuitive entrepreneur is about really tuning in to my inner knowing, about what I'm meant to be doing, what I want to be communicating, what work I want to put out into the world, as opposed to just letting my brain take over or my fears take over. It's really about tuning into that higher purpose and that higher knowing of what I'm meant to be doing and not just tuning in, but trusting it. Really just handing myself over in a certain way and trusting what the guidance that I'm given.

Brigit: Yeah. At what point in your business did you realize that intuition played an integral part in how you do business?

Kathryn:  It's interesting. I'm not sure exactly when it happened. I think I've always been fairly intuitive. I just didn't necessarily know that's what it was at the time. I think to a certain extent I had always run my business that way, but as I created my business in the online world, I started getting exposed more and more to more soulful entrepreneurs and I guess it just started opening up a world and a conversation around it. I kind of had a way to describe what was already there or I learned that it was okay to do these things and have these practices. I think a lot of my soulful practices I had when I was a teenager, but then kind of my family went into that, my friends went into that. The world kind of tells you or it did at the time that that wasn't really acceptable, and so I shut up, shut off a lot of that.

For me, it was about reawakening that part of myself and letting it be okay to use that. I think probably about three years into my business, I started having this sense that what I was doing just wasn't lighting me up anymore. It wasn't enough. It felt a bit shallow just teaching people my first iteration business really was through the eCourse Launch Formula and teaching people how to create online courses, and it was and has been, still runs, an extremely successful program. It's brought in over $1 million in online revenue and all that sort of good stuff, but it just feeling a bit shallow to me. It didn't feel deep enough. It didn't feel like what I was really here and meant to be doing.

I think that was when I started feeling this need to start tuning in more to my intuition and listening to guidance and where I was meant to head next.

Brigit: Yeah, I think that takes a lot of courage when one path is doing well financially, and I think it's kind of this common concept that success equals you're making money. If you're making money, you're doing really well, right?

Kathryn:  Yeah.

Brigit:  I do believe that is still a totally valid a definition of success, but I don't think it's the only one. You're in this position where something's doing really well and yet you're feeling this pull to move away from it. I think that takes a lot of courage to go, "Yeah, I'm doing it." Walk me through that moment of, "I'm going to do this. I'm going to walk ... maybe not so much walk away because it's still running, but I'm going to start to pivot and change."

Kathryn:  Yeah, it was really scary, and I can remember first starting to test the waters in eCourse Launch Formula and ask some questions about whether maybe they'd like me to bring in some more intuitive or spiritual aspects, and just is really interesting because there was some people that basically said to me, "I never would have bought this program if you had that type of stuff in it." Then I had other people were just like, "Oh my god, that sounds amazing. That's fantastic."

It was this point for me to go, "Okay, there are going to be people on my list, there are going to be current clients who this is not right for, but there's also going to be a whole lot of people who might not have purchased from me before that now will because they are attracted to this part of me and this aspect of me, and to a more holistic rounded way of working with them." I had to trust that the right people would come on the journey and that there were enough new people to come on the journey as well, but it was quite scary because I definitely got some feedback that some people would not take me seriously and all of that sort of thing, if I followed this path.

I started getting very sick. I started getting adrenal fatigue and I had it two years in a row, quite badly. For me, this was a bit of a sign physically that I wasn't on the right path, that I wasn't doing what I was meant to be doing, that the work was literally draining me of my energy. It took me a year to get the message. I had to get it exactly the same time the next year to really get the message, but I did, and I realized that things have to change and this wasn't enough for me anymore. I had been planning to create a second program at that launching, and I realized that it wasn't meant to just be a launching program. It was meant to be a program that brought in intuition, that brought in strategy but also soul, that balanced the masculine and feminine aspects.

It was meant to be a new program where I could bring this more soulful, spiritual, intuitive, feminine aspect of myself, rather than trying to make the eCourse Launch Formula fit the new me when it was really kind of the old me. I decided I needed to start branching off and creating some new programs and starting to explore it in that way, but even that was scary because when I first launched Mastery, it was so different to anything I'd ever before. I was showing up in a different way and I was petrified quite honestly. I really felt like I was going to break my business and, I don't know, yeah, it was really, really scary.

Brigit: I think that fear of breaking your business, I can very much relate, especially when you've built something that is so strong and robust and then your heart may be calling you in a very different direction. When you launched Mastery ... Actually tell me a little bit more about Mastery. Was it a blend between the soulful side of business? Tell me more about it.

Kathryn:   Yeah, the program is Launch Mastery. It's specifically about the launching process. It is still very much a program to help people with launching, but I guess it's a bit of an alternative to things like, and nothing bad against them, but things like Product Launch Formula and that sort of thing. It's a bit of an alternative to that, where it's not just all about the strategy and the hustle and the systems, it's also about embodiment, intuition, feminine practices. How do we make launching sustainable? How do we prevent ourselves from getting adrenal fatigue every time we launch? How do we take care of ourselves? How do we tune in and be receptive?

A lot of the time I think when we're launching, it's a time when we need to be opening up and becoming receptive that we actually start shutting down. It's really a holistic program about the launching process that helps women to balance the masculine and feminine aspects of launching, and interestingly I don't just have one ideal client for it, I have some women that come to me that are very much in the masculine, and I tend to be more in the masculine naturally so they can be like me and they're very good at structure and systems and all of that, but they find the launching process so difficult because just the stress that it brings, the anxiety that it brings, and they really need help with the more feminine aspect and the trust and the surrender and taking care of themselves and not burning out.

Then I have the other clients who come to me who are often creatives, soulful entrepreneurs, they're very good at the feminine aspects. They really struggle with the structure and the systems and what do I do next. The program helps both of them, both of those people. It gives people what it is that they need so that they can balance that masculine and feminine. It's not about one being better than the other. We need both when we're launching, and so the program's all about that.

Brigit:  I think it's a really important part that we need both. We need both intuition and strategy because if you're all just in the intuitive space and the spiritual space, you're up in the air. You're not grounded down, right?

Kathryn:  Absolutely.

Brigit:  Likewise, if you're too grounded, you're not necessarily in full connection and full alignment with what it is that you're launching or creating. The other thing that comes up for me with launches, I mean we've done our fair share of launches in Biddy Tarot, and having worked with clients just hearing their experiences of launches too, it can be incredibly exhausting. Even after we've done dozens of them and we've perfected our systems to a T, it still takes a lot of energy. What's one piece of advice that you have to help be more in that open, receiving mode during a launch?

Kathryn:  I think that self-care is incredibly important. What I teach my students in Launch Mastery in particular is that they should be treating themselves better than they ever do during a launch. This is the time where it is the ultimate self-care, the ultimate taking care of yourself. Getting the massage, buying the flowers, seeing your girlfriends, doing all of the things that make you feel good because we need to be vibing at the highest frequency that we can to be open, to be receptive. Energy is either going to attract or repel people, and we don't want to be repelling people during a launch. It's really about that amazing self-care, and that can be something that people are like, "Are you crazy? I'm launching. I can't do that. I need to work all night long."

No, you need to get sleep. You need to eat well. You need to treat yourself well. All of these things are so important to stay in a good mindset, to stay in a good frame of mind. Also, launching has to be sustainable. If you're going to have a launch-based business, you can't afford for it to give you adrenal fatigue every year like I was getting. My main driver with Launch Mastery was there has to be a sustainable way to run a launch-based business that doesn't burn people out and doesn't terrify people just at the thought of launching. That's what I worked on myself and then created to help others.

Brigit:  I think it disrupts the belief around the hustle and the drive and push and strive and make it happen and all of that stuff. People almost bragging that they have spent the last 48 hours awake while still launching their program. You think like, "Okay, good for you. I've been having a massage and [inaudible 00:15:34]."

Kathryn:  Yeah, I'd rather be having the massage during my launch and having prepared well and have good systems so that you don't have to be working like a crazy person. Yes, a lot of what I teach is how do you set up good systems for launching? How do you create a strategy that's going to be effective? How do you work to your strengths so that stuff that you're doing feels good as well? It's absolutely about both aspects, but I do believe, as females, we are different and that the hustle approach isn't most effective for us. I think that we do need to lean in to more of the feminine side because honestly, our generation has been brought up in a world that kind of was forcing us to be men in the corporate environment.

It was like if you wanted to move up in your job, you had to go in, wear the power suit, behave like men, pretend like you don't have children when you've got children. It's not right to take a sick day to look after your kids. All of that stuff, we've been trying to force. I feel like we've been very, I don't even know if this is a word, but masculinized, and I think we need to actually rediscover and reclaim the feminine side. Let me tell you, I'm a total feminist and all of that sort of thing, but I think we need to work to our strengths and work to our natural rhythms and we are rhythmic creatures.

We have times of flow and times of ebb. We need to work with our bodies and ourselves and our energy.

Brigit:  Yeah, and I think what I feel has happened is that the feminine side is downplayed a lot. It's like, "Oh you're resting. You're not serious about ... You're not really serious about your business because you're resting all the time or taking all this time off work or you're putting family first." I've seen that actually play out in an entrepreneurial group where the expectation is that you put that group before you have your family. If you're on a family holiday, well you should absolutely make time for this entrepreneurial group. I was like, "No. That's not how my life works, thanks very much."

Kathryn:  Not at all.

Brigit:   In some peoples eyes, that's seen as weakness or you're not really serious and you haven't got what it takes then to be a serious entrepreneur. I see the tables turning and particularly the work that we're putting out there is helping to create some change and hopefully give more, is this a word, legitimacy? Yes, it is. I think it is. Sounds good enough. Give more legitimacy to enabling that more feminine style of leadership. I'm curious, what does it look like for you, this feminine leadership? What does it look like for you as an entrepreneur right now?

Kathryn: For me, over the last years, I have had to learn to go with my energy flows and know that there are ebbs and flows, and when I'm really feeling the energy and the drive, to work with that, but if I'm feeling like I need to take a nap, I take a nap. It's really about looking after myself. Also, as I have learned and started using astrology in my business as well, I've got this whole other layer of understanding now that I'm going through different transits at different times. An example of this is I had a year and a half to two years where I was feeling terrible. I am in a Sagittarius sun, I normally have a heap of vision, I always know what my plans are, whether it's for the month, the year or the five years. I'm a really big vision person.

It was like I lost all of my sense of vision. I didn't know what I wanted to do anymore. My entrepreneurial friends were like, "Oh my god, what is wrong with Kat? This is not her." When I looked into it, I found that my progressed moon was in Scorpio. Now Scorpio's really deep, dark, intense. This particular progress transit is described as the phoenix rising from the ashes, but for the phoenix to rise, everything has to burn down first. I was in this deep period of the burning down and the confusion. Then it was so interesting, almost to the day of my progress moon moving into Sagittarius, which again is my sun sign so it's a sign I feel very happy and comfortable and easy, and it was like everything just opened up again.

It was like the fog just cleared, and I had my vision for the next stage of my business. I mean, A, just kind of incredible, I couldn't believe it. B, we need to work to the cycles of life that we're in and the transits we're in, and understand that we are going to go through these different phases. For me, it's about understanding that as much as I can, working with the different phases that I'm in, a heap of trust and surrender as well.

Brigit:  You've started learning ... well I shouldn't say you've started learning because you obviously have started learning a very long time ago astrology, because you know a lot more about it than I do. How have you seen that integrated into business? You've shared a little bit about the transits and so on. How else is it weaving into how you do business?

Kathryn:  Part of what I was feeling a real call to, during this period of time where I was feeling quite lost and confused, was I knew that I wanted to depth in something and I felt like even though I'd had a very successful business, that I hadn't truly depthed in one area, and in some ways that's not true, but that was the feeling I was having. Over the last number of years, I've done a lot of things. I've done a soul and energy medicine practicionership. I've done Raki. I've looked into a number of different methodologies and practices, but astrology was really the one that really clicked and connected for me and that helped me the most.

As I was going through this period, what I came out at the end was realizing that I really wanted to depth into astrology, and for me, I've always been about the search for meaning and helping other people understand themselves better and then align their businesses to work with that understanding. For me, that's what astrology really does. It allows people to understand who they are better, understand what they're here to do, understand what phase of life they're in at the moment and what's going on, and then we can even look at their business astrology, look at their business astrology chart. We can look for things like who are their soul clients meant to be, what is it that attracts soul clients to them?

We can even look at branding based on your astrology. There's so many applications of astrology to business. Really what I'm wanting to do is I am going to be creating an astrology academy, specifically for entrepreneurs, so it's going to be, A, teaching them astrology, but then, okay, how can we now apply this to your business? How can we apply this to the offerings that you have, how you're showing up in the world, how you're branding yourself? How can we get you more aligned so that it feels good and you are on the right path?

I'm doing this in a one year Mistress Mind program this year, and the results I'm already seeing from the women. Combining the astrology with the business coaching has already been incredible.

Brigit: Yeah, awesome. This is obviously another pivot that's happening in your business. It's kind of you're going, the little baby pivot to Launch Mastery, and like, "Oh I've got to put some cool things in."

Kathryn:  Yeah.

Brigit:   I think this is an even bigger pivot. Are you feeling some of the fear rising up again or does it feel more like excitement? I'm curious how you're experiencing this second pivot?

Kathryn: There's lots of things I'd like to say about this. There's absolutely fear because with astrology, astrology is like a lifelong pursuit as far as I'm concerned. I've studied pretty intensively in it for a few years now, so I've got a good baseline understanding and I'm a born teacher, so I'm able to pass that understanding onto others, but it's absolutely a lifelong pursuit. I'm never going to know everything there is to know about astrology, so definitely there can be that fear of who am I to do this?

There's people out there that are far more experienced in this than me. Really? Who do you think you are, kind of thing, to do this. I have to keep coming back to this sense of knowing that my tribe want to learn from me, and they want to hear it in the way that I teach it. I know that I've got certain gifts around delivering it in a really practical way, a really easy to understand way. I'm great at designing great learning tools. A lot of the great, amazing astrologists out there aren't necessarily good teachers. I've got these gifts that I can bring to it.

In terms of, I've started talking about it, and on Instagram I've been doing a lot of high level I guess posts each week on different things, so looking at the different signs and the different planets, and I've probably had more engagement in that than I've had in anything for a long time. I've had people so interested. That's been this really strong feedback. If you have people who actually want to know about this and they want to learn about this, I've had a lot of people who have kind of heard I'm doing astrology readings now. I only just like last week put it officially up on my site. I just had people coming to me saying, "Oh I've heard you're doing this. Can I have one?"

Now I'm not even having to really seek people out. They're coming to me. I've been having lots of these little signs along the way, "Keep going. You're on the right path." For me, yeah, it's going to with the energy and tuning into that energy or where it's leading me. There's absolutely been a lot of fear. Even just over the weekend, another little bit came up, but I've gotten pretty good over the years of going, "Okay, I hear you. I heard you. Now you can go away."

Brigit:  On your way.

Kathryn: I'm on my path. I've got enough of this good vibe energy going on that I'm just going to stay on my path and trust.

Brigit:  Yeah. Have you had resistance from others in your community this time around? Are you feeling that or you just let it fly?

Kathryn:  I've had plenty of unsubscribes to my email list. I mean that kind of is often the teller when you start sending emails and you start talking about it. Again, I'm pretty cool with unsubscribes. I'm like it's just clearing out the lists for the people that want to be here, and one of my sayings that I came up with in my business was you're building a business not a fan club. It's not about having the absolutely most number on the list, it's about having people there that actually want what you're giving out. I'm fine with that but yeah, there's been some people unsubscribing, probably a bit more than usual as I've started talking about this more.

I haven't had really any super trolling or negative comments or emails or anything like that. A little bit, I actually feel quite good about it. It's cleansing everything.

Brigit:  Yes. Do you ever have that feeling of, "Oh my goodness, now I can't go back," because you're starting to change the brand now around more of the astrology side and people are choosing to opt in and opt out? Do you ever have that thing of like, "What if I don't know if this is the right way and I want to go back"?

Kathryn: One of the things I've done, and I don't know how long it's going to stay this way, but at the moment I have ... the eCourse Launch Formula brand has been so successful in that program, so I've separated that whole brand out into its own website now. The eCourse Launch Formula used to just have the sales page, now it has a blog and a homepage, and I've kind of created a whole website around it. It can keep a very strong brand, if that's what the eCourse Launch Formula does and is about, and so that Kathryn Hocking can now be about where I'm at in my evolution at any time because I'm constantly evolving, and if I look at the seven years or something I've been in business, it's ridiculous, the amount of evolution that's happened.

I've kind of tried to do that so the people that still just want eCourse Launch Formula can just have eCourse Launch Formula, and it provides nice ongoing income for me, and I'm still really happy to help people with that. I don't think that will necessarily last forever. I think there probably is a time limit on that, but I want to give myself some ease and time to grow this new iteration of my work, and I think one of the things people could do is put too much financial pressure on themselves by trying to burn everything down and start again. I'm more for the slower transition.

I think, I just couldn't go back for myself now. I don't think I'm capable of going back to who I was or what I was as much as anything else.

Brigit: Yes, because I think I always see it like a spiral evolution. We might return back to what kind of is the same of where we were five years ago, but we're in a completely different evolved state. I don't know, maybe there's an evolution with eCourses and astrology. I guess that's kind of what's coming out now actually. As you're working on the Astrology Academy, you are applying what ... from eCourses.

Kathryn:  Exactly. That's the great thing. I can take my years of experience in eCourses and apply it to this new body of work. What I've also said to my people in eCourse Launch Formula is you might think I've gone a bit crazy or you might think you're not at all interested in this, but you can still look at what I'm doing from a strategic perspective. You can still look at what I'm doing from a branding perspective. You can still look at what I'm doing in terms of how I'm designing these courses. There are still lessons within that for you. I always try and take my communities on the journey, not assuming that they're going to always want what I'm offering, but just to take them on the journey from that strategic perspective as well.

Brigit:  Yeah. I think that's really important because I think that gives you room and space to be fully expressed and be authentic in who you are, and to honor your journey so then people aren't feeling confused, like, "Oh I thought she was here, now she's over here. What's going on?" That's important.

Kathryn:  There probably is some confusion there, and I've had to become okay with that. I got to a point where I'm like, "This is going to be a bit messy for a while, and I need to be okay with being in the mess for a while until things get more clearer and things are more established." I think that's also part of it as well. We need to be okay with being in the mess some of the time.

Brigit:  Yes. I think that's the interesting thing, when you're doing a pivot, you've got to throw yourself into the new thing, but not really knowing exactly what that new thing is just yet. You've got to get in there to find out what it is.

Kathryn:  Absolutely.

Brigit:  At the same time, you've got to communicate to your people about this is what it is, even though I'm not really sure what it is just yet. It's the messy in the middle stuff isn't it?

Kathryn:  Yeah. Absolutely. I've always found people overall, people have loved the honesty that I bring to what I do. Whatever it is that I'm doing, yeah, the honesty and openness about the process that I'm open that it's messy when it's messy, and that's part of what has attracted my community to me over the years. I feel that I'm being the most of service when I can show up, be vulnerable, be honest, be open, talk to them not just about my successes, but my failures or things that haven't gone quite the way that I've wanted. That's the person that I need to be to be true to myself as well.

Brigit:  Beautiful. Over the next 12 months, what's emerging and opening up for you?

Kathryn: Well I'm really excited. I am going to be launching the Embodied Soul Astrology Academy is the name. That is going to be launching I'm hoping within the next few months. I am trying to work fairly intuitively with it and not put hard timeframes on myself. It's that balance between working intuitive, but still setting goals and keeping the process moving, but I'm definitely planning to launch the Astrology Academy before the end of the year, hopefully mid-year. The first program is going to be called Your Astrological Signature. It's going to be about your sun, your moon and your rising sun predominantly and what that means about you, how they work together, how you can align your business to work with your astrological signature.

That has been my big project at the moment. I'm also running a yearlong Mistress Mind this year with a beautiful small group for women, and I'm taking them through astrology training all year, and the beautiful thing about this, and it kind of shows a bit of the way I do things strategically, but each month I'm creating training for them, but then that training will then become training within the astrology school. It's kind of a nice way to keep me accountable to getting some content out there and getting some training out there that's then going to be how to be applied more broadly in the astrology school, as I start releasing programs.

Long term, I'd love to have an astrology certification, but I've decided not to put that level of expectation on myself. I'm going to launch some smaller courses first, and then eventually pull it all together into one big course. I'm doing astrology readings now as well. I do business astrology readings, birth chart readings and also year ahead readings. Then I still have my other online programs, and I'm still running, and I love to support people wherever they're at on their journey. Lots of different things going on, but definitely focus on astrology.

Brigit:  Yeah, that's neat. I might just ask about this concept of intuitively launching, and intuitively feeling into it and balancing the whole concept of goals and timelines, because I experienced a similar thing. In Biddy Tarot, there's things happening this time and this day. I know it's 6 to 12 months in advance. We know exactly what we're doing, and then now in the mentoring the business side of things, I'm like, "No, I've just really got to go intuitively," and I'll set a date in my mind and then I'm like, "Oh I'm not really feeling into that right now. I might actually change it around." It feels so different. Is that a similar experience for you where you've been quite structured and now you're trying to really let go and flow?

Kathryn:  Yeah. It was a hard transition initially for me, but I've noticed over the last few years, I've just had to ... it's like what I've been working on has a mind of its own or an energy of its own, and so I could, as Kathryn say, because this is what I'm aiming for, but often there was a plan beyond me of what was meant to happen. I think the problem is for me I'm quite good at it because I am quite a structured planned person. I am good at setting goals. I've been able to do it. I think the people that struggle with it are people that aren't good at setting some of those structures for themselves because they get too much into that intuitive flow and often that can turn into resistance or just an excuse, "Oh it's not the right time" kind of thing.

I think we need to be careful. Again, we do need both. We need that intuitive flow, but also we need to set some goals and plans and keep ourselves accountable as well, but yeah, these days I am trying to really fill into what I'm meant to be doing, trust that. If it starts to feel not quite right, take a step back. Whereas I used to always be, "No, this is the launch date. It must happen here." All that gave me was adrenal fatigue. I don't do that anymore.

Brigit:  Yeah, I can absolutely relate. What aspect of yourself are you expressing as you're stepping into this new exciting part?

Kathryn:  What I love about astrology is that I'm a Virgo rising, and it still allows me to use that part of myself that is analytical, that is planned and structured, so it harnesses that, but then it also really allows me to express the intuitive side and to, when I'm looking at someone's chart or I'm working with a client, to intuitively feel in to what is this really about, what's going on here. I love that, again, it allows me to bring kind of those masculine and feminine aspects together. I think what I'm getting drawn more and more to really depth astrology, so looking at the trauma that's hidden in our charts, the comic imprints that are in our charts, the ancestral stuff that's in our charts.

I'm really enjoying feeling into this much deeper expression of what I do that's almost more of a therapeutic basis than a coaching basis, if that makes sense. I feel like there's this much deeper part of me that I'm allowing to come out, and I say, I kind of feel like maybe for a number of years I was very much a generalist or covered a whole lot of different things in the programs, and I teach people now it's about really depthing down into this area.

Brigit:  I wonder if part of it is a bit of the playing safe, that then feeling actually, you know what, to really honor who I am, it's now about focusing in on one thing and even if that means that some people fall out of my space, but it means also people fall in the space and become even more attracted to what it is that you do.

Kathryn:  I think my next challenge, yeah, that's totally true, my next challenge is around within the groups I'm in, in the online world and I'm entirely cool with expressing what I do and who I am, but it's when the next door neighbor asks me what I do or you're at a family dinner. There's this next level for me around embracing and being okay with who I really am and what I do. I think there's a next stage of embracing that, that needs to happen. Again, it's what a lot of us feel when we start moving into the more spiritual woo-woo work, whatever you want to call it, but unfortunately our society has kind of made it not okay or not as acceptable as other things.

Brigit:  Yeah. We're hopefully changing that.

Kathryn:  Yes, I hope so. That's part of what we're here to do.

Brigit:  That's our calling, 100%.

Kathryn:  Yeah.

Brigit:  Awesome. Well Kathryn, where can people find out more about you?

Kathryn:  They can come over to my website at KathrynHocking.com. They'll see links through to my programs and my astrology work, and when the Astrology Academy launches, they'll be able to get to it from there as well. Yeah.

Brigit: Fabulous.

Kathryn:  That's the best place to find me.

Brigit:  Awesome. Thank you so very much for the conversation today. I've really enjoyed it, and I can't wait to see what unfolds for you, particularly as this whole astrology business comes through. Super exciting.

Kathryn:Thank you so much, and I've so enjoyed talking to you as well.

Brigit:  Fabulous. All right. Thank you for joining me for today's episode of the Intuitive Entrepreneur Podcast. If you loved this episode, please leave an honest rating and review on iTunes. It helps to get the word out, and of course I read every single comment. If you want to discover how to plan your next big launch using the cycles of the moon, make sure that you download my free guide, Lunar Launches. You'll find it over at Brigit.me/Lunar-Launches. That's B-R-I-G-I-T dot me, forward slash lunar-launches.

These are the exact strategies I've used in my business to create six figure launches, time after time. Now you can use them too. You'll find it all inside of my free guide, Lunar Launches over at Brigit.me/Lunar-Launches. That is it for now. I cannot wait to see you next time. Bye for now.